It will be interesting to see what happens next year. Now that we've won one, winning might not be enough, and fans might demand a more attacking style (especially if we stop getting results).
You’re certainly entitled to your feelings about winning ugly, but I think you’re also overlooking how much the team changed during the season because of injuries. Early in the season, Arsenal scored off of a lot of corners (and a lot of own goals from the other team), but they were also scoring regularly from open play, especially in the Champions League. Look back at their match with Bayern. That’s what Arsenal could be, and that was attractive football.
Additionally, I understand that you want them to play a certain way regardless of the result, but I think you are ignoring the physical demands on players in the Premier League now relative to the 2000s. Players are bigger, stronger, better conditioned, on all twenty teams. Dribblers are closed down faster than ever, and teams press much higher up the pitch. While I agree with you that Arsenal certainly can and should improve their creativity by refreshing some of the attacking positions with new talent, the prevailing physical conditions in the Premier League may just not permit the kind of free-flowing football that classic Wenger teams had. That is again why I would point to Arsenal’s run in the league phase of the CL as proof that Arsenal could and would play more fluidly when the other side gave them the space to do so.
Thirdly, your argument about playing it safe not working is a terrible case of recency bias, based on the CL final. In reality, Arsenal lost only once all year in the PL when they scored first—out of 27 matches! Arsenal scored 41 second half goals and allowed only 11. No other side had anywhere near that success in closing out matches. (https://www.arsenal.com/news/arsenal-analysed-how-we-won-premier-league)
As a final demonstration that Arteta’s meticulous control did have some good consequences, Arsenal never picked up a red card in the league nor conceded a penalty. That never happened before!
It boggles my mind that you cannot savor a championship, as long as it was legitimately achieved.
All fair points! I just look to teams like Barcelona, PSG, and Bayern, and that’s the style I want the team to play. I take your point that Arsenal did at times play attractive football, but I also think about the league run-in and in particular the knockout stages of CL (1-1 to Leverkusen, 0-0 to Sporting, 1-0 to Sporting, 1-0 to Atletico, 1-1 to Atletico) and don’t think those were good games to watch. I completely get a team parking the bus when they’re overmatched, but I think Arsenal have the players to go toe to toe against most opposition (even PSG). I do acknowledge that the teams I’m mentioning play in easier leagues where they can rest in many league matches. I didn’t have time to develop this, but there’s also a difference in strategy for league matches and knockout matches. Maybe Arsenal’s strategy is more suited to the league than cup competitions. All this being said, you still need a lot of luck, things to break your way, etc. I’m happy Arsenal won the league, but I want to to win in style next year!
I had similar feelings this season. I really hope this is just the start of Arsenal getting more serious, the roster they've built over the last couple years has been far closer in style to those early 00's days than the roster they had around the turn of this decade. But then again, if players leave because of their new success (guys like Odegaard) or if Arteta really does have such a tight leash, we may never see a return to style.
My hope is that Arteta evolves a bit. I don’t think players will leave unless it’s for Madrid or Barcelona, but even then, I’m not sure it’s worth it. Odegaard used to actually be a creative player but I didn’t see it this year, and it seemed like Saka had the creativity sapped out of him as well. That’s the worrying thing for me—players come to Arsenal and become robotic. I forget which game it was but Dowman came on and totally changed the game because he’s 16 and Arteta hasn’t ruined him yet. But against a tougher league, I don’t think we’ll be good enough to win it unless we play more like PSG or Bayern this year.
Yeah, you're right. I know the players you mentioned have the creativity in them, and I feel I saw it a bit this season, but never in the clutch moments, and it definitely wasn't what won matches (unfortunately that was corners). Maybe I'm speaking to their potential. I have hope though, because I'm not so sure the creativity was sapped out or the surrounding players just aren't up to it (in addition to Arteta's tactics, which you're definitely right about). I just haven't been excited by the roster in a long time. The back line is fine, when healthy, but I really think the way forward is building around Eze/Odegaard/Rice, all deployed at the same time. I'd argue they're the our most special players, Saka, too, but his play isn't as unique in my opinion, still crucial though. But it could be too late for that. To your point about the other leagues, however, tactics aside, no way Lewis-Skelley should be starting a CL final.
I started following Arsenal after Ray Parlour scored a rocket shot in a UEFA match in 2000. Thierry was my guy.
I was happy they won, but it was not a fun season to watch. Or the type of football that won me over in the 2000s.
It will be interesting to see what happens next year. Now that we've won one, winning might not be enough, and fans might demand a more attacking style (especially if we stop getting results).
You’re certainly entitled to your feelings about winning ugly, but I think you’re also overlooking how much the team changed during the season because of injuries. Early in the season, Arsenal scored off of a lot of corners (and a lot of own goals from the other team), but they were also scoring regularly from open play, especially in the Champions League. Look back at their match with Bayern. That’s what Arsenal could be, and that was attractive football.
Additionally, I understand that you want them to play a certain way regardless of the result, but I think you are ignoring the physical demands on players in the Premier League now relative to the 2000s. Players are bigger, stronger, better conditioned, on all twenty teams. Dribblers are closed down faster than ever, and teams press much higher up the pitch. While I agree with you that Arsenal certainly can and should improve their creativity by refreshing some of the attacking positions with new talent, the prevailing physical conditions in the Premier League may just not permit the kind of free-flowing football that classic Wenger teams had. That is again why I would point to Arsenal’s run in the league phase of the CL as proof that Arsenal could and would play more fluidly when the other side gave them the space to do so.
Thirdly, your argument about playing it safe not working is a terrible case of recency bias, based on the CL final. In reality, Arsenal lost only once all year in the PL when they scored first—out of 27 matches! Arsenal scored 41 second half goals and allowed only 11. No other side had anywhere near that success in closing out matches. (https://www.arsenal.com/news/arsenal-analysed-how-we-won-premier-league)
As a final demonstration that Arteta’s meticulous control did have some good consequences, Arsenal never picked up a red card in the league nor conceded a penalty. That never happened before!
It boggles my mind that you cannot savor a championship, as long as it was legitimately achieved.
All fair points! I just look to teams like Barcelona, PSG, and Bayern, and that’s the style I want the team to play. I take your point that Arsenal did at times play attractive football, but I also think about the league run-in and in particular the knockout stages of CL (1-1 to Leverkusen, 0-0 to Sporting, 1-0 to Sporting, 1-0 to Atletico, 1-1 to Atletico) and don’t think those were good games to watch. I completely get a team parking the bus when they’re overmatched, but I think Arsenal have the players to go toe to toe against most opposition (even PSG). I do acknowledge that the teams I’m mentioning play in easier leagues where they can rest in many league matches. I didn’t have time to develop this, but there’s also a difference in strategy for league matches and knockout matches. Maybe Arsenal’s strategy is more suited to the league than cup competitions. All this being said, you still need a lot of luck, things to break your way, etc. I’m happy Arsenal won the league, but I want to to win in style next year!
I had similar feelings this season. I really hope this is just the start of Arsenal getting more serious, the roster they've built over the last couple years has been far closer in style to those early 00's days than the roster they had around the turn of this decade. But then again, if players leave because of their new success (guys like Odegaard) or if Arteta really does have such a tight leash, we may never see a return to style.
My hope is that Arteta evolves a bit. I don’t think players will leave unless it’s for Madrid or Barcelona, but even then, I’m not sure it’s worth it. Odegaard used to actually be a creative player but I didn’t see it this year, and it seemed like Saka had the creativity sapped out of him as well. That’s the worrying thing for me—players come to Arsenal and become robotic. I forget which game it was but Dowman came on and totally changed the game because he’s 16 and Arteta hasn’t ruined him yet. But against a tougher league, I don’t think we’ll be good enough to win it unless we play more like PSG or Bayern this year.
Yeah, you're right. I know the players you mentioned have the creativity in them, and I feel I saw it a bit this season, but never in the clutch moments, and it definitely wasn't what won matches (unfortunately that was corners). Maybe I'm speaking to their potential. I have hope though, because I'm not so sure the creativity was sapped out or the surrounding players just aren't up to it (in addition to Arteta's tactics, which you're definitely right about). I just haven't been excited by the roster in a long time. The back line is fine, when healthy, but I really think the way forward is building around Eze/Odegaard/Rice, all deployed at the same time. I'd argue they're the our most special players, Saka, too, but his play isn't as unique in my opinion, still crucial though. But it could be too late for that. To your point about the other leagues, however, tactics aside, no way Lewis-Skelley should be starting a CL final.
Eze/Odegaard/Rice is my ideal midfield trio if you want to dominate the ball!
What I want is, like you said, fearlessness and beauty!